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Re: Jesus, "Hell," and Destructive Relationships

Re: Jesus, "Hell," and Destructive Relationships

 Are you familiar with a red herring?  When I made my post, I asked an explicit question of the text.  I asked: What does Jesus say about “hell?”  I didn’t ask: What did Jesus say about “geenna”?  And with my question, I gave explicit reasons for why I asked it: because it is commonplace for people to use the word “hell.”  Until you, I’ve never heard anyone use the word “geenna,” so I would say that the phrase is not commonplace.  

You said:

I’m sure we will see what we want in the texts, but I think how ever we define Jesus’ use of geenna, it should be limited to a form of judgment, because the word is used to describe the consequences (Mat 10:28; 23:3; Luk 12:53) the wicked were/are to face.

My point is that “we” are not trying to “define Jesus’ use of geenna.”   You are.  I’m talking about “hell” as the NIV and most other translations of the Bible render it and the way most people talk about it.  What makes your criticism a red herring, I think, is that your criticism isn’t directed at what I actually asked.  You’re critiquing me for a question that you asked.

What I mean to say is you are interpreting Jesus anachronistically because you are imposing your culturally diffused understandings (i.e. of hell) unto the text. Modern understandings of “hell” (which the English word calls to mind) are different (at least in part), I’d argue, from Jesus’ understandings of geenna. For example, to understand why Jesus is the Messiah, you first must understand how “Messiah” was defined and what it connoted in the first century. You should not impose your own definitions back unto Jesus’ definitions, know what I mean?

Am I?  Or am I reading what is in the Holy Bible?  Perhaps the translations of the Bible use anachronistic language—I don’t doubt that.  My point is that I’m using the language and words used in the Bible.  And when people like Todd Friel of the Way of the Master radio program say the word “hell,” they are also using the words in the Bible.  My aim is to clarify what Jesus said about “hell,” as it appears in the Gospels.  Again, I say take your charge of anachronism to the translators of the Bible.  

The valley is identified as a place in the texts. Is that not textual evidence?

My question is on what Jesus had to say about “hell.”  Is that citation from the Gospels?  Did Jesus say those words?

Since when is the NIV the standard for interpretation?

I didn’t claim the NIV is “the standard for interpretation.”  I said that the NIV is the Bible I used to examine what Jesus had to say about “hell.”  We could use other translations.  The KJV, NKJV, NRSV, and so on are all there too.  I used the NIV because it is a widely read translation and so that particular text and that particular translation is influential in that regard.  The KJV would also be a very influential version to look at.  Either way, as far as Jesus is concerned, all the translations render the word “hell.”  None of them say “geenna,” which is why so many people actually use the word “hell” and basically nobody uses the word “geenna.”   

Jesus, "Hell," and Destructive Relationships By: Jacob (77 replies) 5 November, 2007 - 21:19